Christ Alone

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Posts by Christ Alone

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  8

  Elder accepts literature from a lady at the door

  by TimeBandit in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  hi folks.

  just taking a quick break from packing, and thought i'd pop in and say hey.

  today i had a memory from field service pop up and i'd like to share it.. .

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  Christ Alone

  I wonder if her book said that the trumpet blasts of Revelation were district conventions too...
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  52

  Watchtower Dishonesty

  by Vanderhoven7 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  just re-discovered this gem:.

  "it is a matter of fact that the history of the watchtower society is riddled with failed date-setting and abandoned doctrine,1 and the society has gone to great lengths to hide this past from its members.

  older (incriminating) watchtower publications are virtually impossible to obtain through the society,2 while at the same time members are overwhelmed with "current" watchtower material.. the watchtower society has even gone as far as to publish disinformation about its own history in an attempt to convince readers that watchtower doctrine has remained consistent over the years, and that the society is not a false prophet.

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  Christ Alone

  Just like every other so-called JW apologist I've encountered, when they can't argue the actual facts, they resort to going after the person. Like this one by Elephant:

  why have you spent the last 9 years (and counting) reading 'wicked' literature?

  Did he acknowledge the outright lies by the Watchtower? Of course not. It's easier to focus on the person and try to draw attention away from the lie and the liar.

  Elephant, when the Watchtower said this, was it a LIE?:

  Why, then, do the nations not realize and accept the approach of this climax of judgment? It is because they have not heeded the world-wide advertising of Christ's return and his second presence. Since long before World War I Jehovah's witnesses pointed to 1914 as the time for this great event to occur. –The Watchtower, June 15, 1954, page 370.

  Will you even admit that they lied?

  Here is an outright lie by the Watchtower. Not even Elephant can deny this one. I'd like to see you try, Elephant.

  “But, is it true you have never published a biography of Pastor Russell? … That’s right. Jehovah’s Witnesses admire the qualities he possessed as a man, but were we to give the honor and credit to Pastor Russell, we would be saying that the works and success were his; but Jehovah’s witnesses believe it is God’s spirit that guides and directs his people.” —Jehovah’s Witnesses in the Divine Purpose, 1959, p. 63 (View PDFof the page)

  However, look at what they had published in the Watchtower and the studies in the scriptures: “Biography of Pastor Russell… Charles Taze Russell, known the world over as Pastor Russell, author, lecturer and minister of the gospel, was born at Pittsburgh, Pa, February 16, 1852.” —The Divine Plan of the Ages, 1886, 1925ed, p. 1 (View PDFof the page)

  Hmmm....how can you twist that so it's not a lie, Elephant?
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  51

  Jesus was an Angel and used God's name

  by Christ Alone in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  interesting stuff in the november wt.

  note this dishonest quote:.

  during his ministry, jesus.

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  Christ Alone

  I'm glad you've responded to these arguments, Elephant. It really shows everyone, current JWs included, that the Watchtower does not have a leg to stand on, especially in regards to Jesus being an angel. Your counter points shows the lack of thought that the Watchtower (and you) have put into these matters. You have not examined the context, do not grasp the concept of hermeneutics, and when backed into a corner you do what all false teachers do...say "That's just your interpretation."

  No it's not my interpretation. If you know the history of why Hebrews was written and what the writer was trying to counter, you look at the grammatical structure of the points he is making, and you examine the context, there is no other conclusion that you can come to than "Jesus was not and is not an Angel."
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  51

  Jesus was an Angel and used God's name

  by Christ Alone in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  interesting stuff in the november wt.

  note this dishonest quote:.

  during his ministry, jesus.

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  Christ Alone

  We are examining literature, can'tleave. It would be the same as discussing Grimms fairy tales if you will. I'm trying to approach this as literature criticism. Nothing funny about it.
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  51

  Jesus was an Angel and used God's name

  by Christ Alone in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  interesting stuff in the november wt.

  note this dishonest quote:.

  during his ministry, jesus.

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  Christ Alone

  ...and i gather you didn't find any scriptures in your studies that absolutely ruled out Jesus as being archangel either...see how easy it is to argue for

  or against this idea?

  I just gave you a scripture that shows that Jesus was NOT an angel. Hebrews asks, "For to which of the angels did He ever say, 'You are my Son, today I have begotten You.'? And again, 'I will be a Father to Him and He shall be a Son to Me.'?

  That was pretty easy. Here is another proof that Jesus is not Michael: Daniel 10:13, "But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia."

  ONE OF THE CHIEF PRINCES! Meaning there are others. Plus, John 3:16 shows that Jesus is God's ONE AND ONLY Son. He is completely unique.

  Here is another: In Hebrews 2:5 it says that the world is not [and will not be] in subjection to an angel. This makes it clear that no angel will ever rule in God's kingdom.

  Here is another: Jude 1:9, " But even Michael, one of the mightiest of the angels, did not dare accuse the devil of blasphemy, but simply said, "The Lord rebuke you!" (This took place when Michael was arguing with the devil about Moses' body.)

  Micheal did not rebuke the devil. Hmmm...Jesus did though...Matthew 4:10 is an example. Besides this, ALL AUTHORITY, including the authority to rebuke the devil, has been given to Jesus (Matt 28:18)

  Interestingly, the Watchtower did not always teach that Michael and Jesus were one and the same. “Hence it is said, ‘let all the angels of God worship him’: (that must include Michael, the chief angel, hence Michael is not the Son of God )…” (1879 WT, p. 4).

  I believe you are the one standing with a lack of evidence, Elephant. Boo Yah
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  51

  Jesus was an Angel and used God's name

  by Christ Alone in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  interesting stuff in the november wt.

  note this dishonest quote:.

  during his ministry, jesus.

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  Christ Alone

  neither you nor I can say here is FLAT proof that THIS is so…the scripture would have to say, “Jesus was never, is, never will be an angel”…everything else is interpretation…

  It is apparent that you don't have a knowledge of the context of Hebrews. Hebrews was written at a time when gnostics were claiming that Jesus was an angel. Did you know that? The very thing JWs are teaching now is what the writer of Hebrews was writing against. You conveniently skipped over vs 5-8 which says: "For to which of the angels did He ever say, 'You are my Son, today I have begotten You.'? And again, 'I will be a Father to Him and He shall be a Son to Me.'?

  v6 - "And when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says, 'And let all the angels of God worship Him.'

  v7 - "And of the angels He says, 'Who makes His angels winds, and His ministers a flame of fire.'

  v8 - "But of the Son He says, "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, and the righteous scepter is the scepter of His kingdom.

  The writer of Hebrews is specifically telling the readers that JESUS IS NOT AN ANGEL. This is his whole argument. To NONE of the angels did God ever say "You are my Son". In fact in vs8 the Father calls Jesus "GOD". No, Jesus is not an angel, and Hebrews is direct proof.

  Your logic here is flawed. I could also say "Jesus was never, is, never will be a dog". The burden of proof is on YOU to tell me why Jesus IS an angel, when the scriptures never call him one. I don't have to prove to you that Jesus was not a flower, and pig, or a fluffy white happy cloud. Logic does not work that way. It describes what IS, not what is NOT.
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  21

  I'm lost

  by Dyfii in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  not at all.. i tried to kill myself 3 times.

  i was 14, nobody likes me at school, my weight was a problem, i tought that god wasn't there for me, my life had no sense.

  at 15-16 i decided it was enough.

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  Christ Alone

  Dyfii, that was the most touching post I've ever read. I'm so glad you opened up and shared.

  You are a special, beautiful person. Don't let ANYONE take that away from you. The only power other people have over you is the power that you give them. Don't let them have the power to make you feel like a horrible person.

  There was alot in your post that sounded like you might think you are a woman living in a mans body. Have you ever pursued this to see if that is what you want? There are alot of people that have found happiness in realizing that just because they were born with the sexual organs of a man (or a woman), doesn't mean that that is WHAT they are.

  You deserve to be loved and respected.

  One thing that I read in your post was that you contantly feel judged by other Jehovah's Witnesses. Sadly, this is par for the course in the organization. Very rarely will you ever find someone that will accept you for who you are. Especially if it has to do with being gay or transgendered. If you remember anything I say, PLEASE remember this. God and religion are 2 very different things. It sounds like you had a spiritual experience where you felt the presence of God. That is VERY special. But remember that that did not have anything to do with the Watchtower organization. It had to do with God knowing that you love Him and He showed you that He loves you too....exactly how you are.

  I hope you know that you will not be judged here on this site like you have been all your life. People here realize that the rules that JWs have (and many other religions for that matter) are harmfull and dangerous. You don't deserve to be treated that way.

  You said that you are in Canada and studying now. I hope you know that the kingdom hall is not the only place you can go to find friends. Maybe you could attend a support group for LGBT's in your area. You will find plenty of friends there. There are also exJW meetups were people that have been rejected and outcast from the society can go and find each other.

  I wish I was in Canada to give you a hug and let you know it will be ok. Please hang on. Look around on this site and see how others have been affected by the organization. There are SO MANY here that have been rejected by Jehovah's Witnesses because of who they are.

  Also remember this. God does not judge you for what you do, but for your faith. It sounds like you have a tremendous amount of faith to have been able to hold on all this time and still have a love for God. Remember that He is close to you and will comfort you. Here are some stories of Jehovah's Witnesses that were rejected by their friends and families, yet still held on to their faith in God. http://4jehovah.org/ex-jehovahs-witness-stories/
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  85

  Post 666: Revelation--Its Grand Climax in 70 AD

  by Londo111 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  revelation is the most misunderstood and misused book of the bible.

  the branch davidians and other cults used revelation with deadly results.

  fundamentalists have used it to prognosticate a future where the antichrist and his one world government mark people with microchips or barcodes during a seven year tribulation.

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  Christ Alone

  then invoked Cofty's Law by trying to say I was being like the watchtower.

  Funny! Look at your post. You accused the writers of that book of being like the Watchtower. You said:

  What struck me is that, how apart from some doctrinal issues like the Trinity or blood, they use very similiar reasoning as the JW's

  I guess (in your definition) that was a strawman too. :-)

  And that wasn't nice to Cofty... poor poor Cofty

  Also you said:

  you can take how they define King of the North and the facts they use to support that, their alternate switching between "this sentence is symbolic and this is literal" in the same prophecy (which they use to build their chart of a timeline of events of the triblulation, armageddon, etc.), their use of "no one can know when the end will come" and then saying "but we have a REALLY good case for thinking it's gonna happen any second now" and then making sure that, if you beleive them, well, hey, Jesus said no one would know (while conventiently forgetting to mention that he said "when you are expecting it, it won't happen").

  I still didn't read any facts in there. It was all vague generalizations. "This sentence is symbolic and this is literal". That's not a specific example. But I guess you don't have one. I AM thinking before I speak, which I guess is the problem when speaking to you. By asking for specific examples, that you can't give, I guess that was asking too much.

  The funny thing is that I wasn't defending the book. I don't even know what the book is. I was asking for examples instead of vagueness.
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  11

  Look what became of Sparlock!

  by Chariklo in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  poor sparlock!

  poor caleb, even!.

  for a few brief weeks...was it even for as long as a few brief weeks?...sparlock enjoyed fleeting fame with his own page on wikipedia.

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  Christ Alone

  I added a link to jwfacts.com at the bottom...
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  85

  Post 666: Revelation--Its Grand Climax in 70 AD

  by Londo111 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  revelation is the most misunderstood and misused book of the bible.

  the branch davidians and other cults used revelation with deadly results.

  fundamentalists have used it to prognosticate a future where the antichrist and his one world government mark people with microchips or barcodes during a seven year tribulation.

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  Christ Alone

  Are you saying that this "coming in the clouds" already happened, as in Christ has already returned?

  Sab, this is the preterist view. He already did come, all the prophecies have been fulfilled, and the Devil is already being punished.